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64 thoughts on “#854-855 – you know that”
Oh hey it's been awhile since we saw Marek without his eyes.
Simpler times? Probably not, but it's nice to see that and reminisce.
Does HE still talk to Hanna? O__O
Come on, please ask if Marek and Hanna still talk, i got to know for sure!!!!
She deleted his number after a drunk call, so I don't think so
She removed his contact information from her phone at the end of "The Witch Lives". I don't think they talk.
Oh, thank GOD they're not gonna reconcile.
Which they are you talking about? Merek and Hanna? Marigold and Hanna? I get the sense it isn't over with Merek and Hanna. They may not get back together. There's nothing wrong with that—unless Hanna has a super huge personal change (which she might—most of the time she's existed in the comic she's been high), it's okay she doesn't want kids, but it wouldn't surprise me if they became friends. It's very sad Marigold and Hanna don't make up, but I can honestly see it never happening (unless Hanna has some amazing super monkey ninja "apologize and make it up to you" powers).
Man I'd try the straight money in a prize machine too
It's probably just a squeaky toy meant to look like cash.
🙁 Beautiful work!
Even in the OctopusPiverse, no one can escape those godDAMNed minions
I like how the entire machine is just full of them.
They're probably off-brand "Minyöns" the arcade operator picked up for cheap in Chinatown.
"Hanna and I'll be better this way" reminds me of when she was telling Hanna she'd be better for her breakup with Marek…
I love how there's just a fat wad of cash in the claw machine.
How far back was the story arc with Hanna and Marigold breaking apart?
I'd like to know too, I've become kind of foggy as to why they aren't friends anymore. I remember Hanna obsessively hating pictures of Marigold running and that whole arc, but not the actual collapse of their friendship.
It was after Marek's graduation. Hannah was shutting down, Marigold tried to comfort/help her, Hannah didn't like being in that position and lashed out. Then Eve bought her a new mattress!
Here's the friend-breakup: http://www.octopuspie.com/2014-03-17/648-649-i-kn…
Man…I kinda wished I didn't click on that. She was being nice by calling it ugly. I forgot how out of control Hanna was. I'm glad Marigold stood up for herself.
Reading that now makes me love how Meredith actually had Hanna suffer for her self-righteousness, or feelings of superiority, or whatever they were. That she didn't just continue to always drag everyone around by her self-defined whimsy. She saw Marigold being happier than her, so she tried to reign her back in, y'know, take her down a peg, but it backfired on her.
I love all of these characters, but it's nice to see them get consequences for their mistakes, and then bounce back from them, learn from it, and grow as people.
"and then bounce back from them, learn from it, and grow as people." You sound like Marigold. This is probably not as good a thing as you think it is.
What does that even mean?
Adulthood is about learning from mistakes, if you don't make mistakes you never learn anything. It's a process, not a perspective.
What, like adolescents and children don't learn from mistakes?
Anyway, you and Dell are both making everything very easy: Do the modern Sacrament of Penance – "make mistakes" and "learn" – and you'll "grow."
What does "grow" even mean here? Feel more contented? Anesthetic does that too. Better conform to what outside observers – that is, in this case, you and Dell – think you should be? Well great.
Not that the Marigold we're seeing now isn't a likable character, but I think it's pretty clear that she's diminished (at least) as much as she's grown, since she decided to go yuppie. And I'm pretty sure that's how Meredith consciously intends for us to see her, though of course I could be completely wrong about that. In any case, since our generation (I'm assuming we're mostly millenials here) generally went yuppie without even realizing that we should maybe feel kind of bad about it, it's not surprising that that aspect of Marigold seems to be going unremarked by a lot (most?) of the commenters here.
yuppies? in this economy?
So, I have to ask. It sounds almost like you're saying "going yuppie" is something to be that should carry a degree of shame. I may be misreading it but I'm curious why that is. What, exactly, are we missing that should make us feel bad?
I agree with you that Hanna was way out of line, but Marigold was playing with false equivalency. Hanna losing a years long relationship is different to what Marigold's gone through, and Hanna's annoyance was valid even though her response was vicious. There's no excuse, but you can see how Hanna went over the edge. Hearing stuff about how you'll be better off while you're still grieving is… unhelpful at best.
That's what I love about OP – Hanna was way out of line, but she wasn't entirely the bad guy. Marigold was definitely a teensy weensy bit out of line too. One is clearly worse than the other and Hanna deserved what she got, but it wasn't an angel/devil scenario even if it looked that way on the surface. These things rarely are.
(Minicomic spoiler) When they were young Hanna took care of Mar all the time even at her own expense. Now Mar's all grown up and left the nest and I don't know if Hanna regrets losing her as a friend. Maybe she regrets losing someone she could take care of.
Wow. Having forgotten this, I'm surprised how evocative this "I know the real (terrible) you" stuff is of her conversation with Will: http://www.octopuspie.com/2014-12-29/740-stick-yo…
Marek was and still is a bearded Angel.
That tenth panel 'do.
1 IN 10 wins!
I never realized my feelings could be SO affected by the presence of a right arrow button (excitement and joy!) or lack thereof (despair and longing). Can't wait for the next update!
I wonder if the "1-in-10 Wins!" is purely theming with the kid-friendly gambling, or if there is some uncertainty involved. Maybe you're guaranteed a soda, but not necessarily the flavor you selected? Or maybe you can win something in addition to the soda?
I think it's a joke about the soda machines not working right, that even though they should just be a guaranteed thing, the machines are so messed up that it's like a gamble on its own just to get one.
Makes me think of how Coca-cola didn't want to jump the price of a Coke from 5c to 10c in the 50s, so they experimented with leaving a certain number of spots in each machine blank, so that some customers would have to pay twice to get a coke, thereby raising the effective price to 6.5c 🙂
Maybe some of them are those "T-shirt in a can" instead?
Ah! I just noticed that she has her lady's jacket on! BLESS HER FOR GIVING IT TO MARI :')
My first thought was that there was *totally* one reason, and the reason was that Hanna was so messed up over Marek that she lashed out at Marigold and said a bunch of awful shit to her.
My second thought is that Marigold realized that Marek will understand that as "she pushed me away because you broke up with her," and lied to him to spare him that.
But it does remind me of how annoying it is when people explain the death of an important relationship with "oh, y'know, there's no one reason, it just wasn't working, etc." Mentally healthy people don't consciously delete a dear friend (or lover) from their lives over a vague, abstract sense of discomfort. Something has to *happen* to cause that.
(And "C'mon, dude, you know that" is painfully disingenuous of her, since there was totally one reason Hannah and Marek broke up. I like to imagine that the silent panel is Marek wondering about that, and realizing that what Marigold actually means is "I don't want to talk about it" and choosing to go along.)
I think the "one reason" was "I tried to help Hanna but she admitted to me that the only reason why she would help me at all and be friends was me was because she felt sorry for me and so she could feel superior to me and that I couldn't help her because she saw me as her pathetic friend that couldn't even help myself and didn't WANT to believe that I was capable of change, thinking me as a fake if I wasn't being sad."
Not something you wanna really dump on someone…
Nailed it. Imo, these are often the toughest, but most essential, friendships to grow out of, or at least re-negotiate, in order to grow and change personally.
& this Hanna/Marigold dynamic / backstory is really explored in "On the Strait and Narrows", which I think is still up for grabs over here! https://gumroad.com/granulac
There really WASN'T just one reason, though.
There was a single incident that clearly marks the end of their friendship (Hanna lashing out), and the breakup was the catalyst to that, but that whole arc — hell even just that one page where Hanna's awful to Marigold — highlights a myriad of insidious issues that have been running deep within Hanna and Marigold's friendship for years.
If anything, the "you know that" line is one of total honesty. Because if anyone knows Hanna and what her relationship with Marigold was like, it's Marek. He may think Hanna needs her, but he also knows how Hanna treated her and thought about her. So, she didn't lie to him, or say anything to spare him, and I don't think she said that because she thinks Hanna and Marek broke up for similar reasons*.
*(but, likewise, Hanna and Marek's split wasn't because of just one thing, either)
That's the way I read it as well. Obviously going into specifics about Hanna's shitty behavior since the breakup would be uncomfortable for both Marigold and Marek, but saying it wasn't just one thing is absolutely true. Even though Hanna was in a state of distress, the things she said to Marigold are all real underlying thoughts and feelings.
Actually no, I've deleted a dear friend from my life over an abstract sense of discomfort. Or, former dear friend. He wasn't as good as I thought he was. No one thing happened. I just…couldn't anymore.
I had all my close friends make a point of cutting off contact with me while I was severely depressed, once. Except, I didn't need to lash out at anyone first, just fuck something up for myself. They also said we'd be better this way.
I don't even know what to say, Mar.
Sorry to hear that. I've had depression myself, and luckily had friends (and a spouse) who were willing to still deal with me during the worst of it. I'm not sure I would have survived without their support. I hope you came through it ok, and hope you found at least one or two people to depend on.
I've also had friends who've gone through similar periods of illness or rough emotional patches, and have been saddened to see how many people will drop someone from their lives just because they're uncomfortable to be around for a while.
It's telling perhaps, that there aren't really any children or older folks in this strip, except as passing non-player characters. I absolutely love OP, but all the characters, even the current couple-du-jour or Marigold and Jane, are really quite self-absorbed – still teenagers, to be honest. I can't think of any real sacrifice or compromise any of them have made to primarily benefit another.
That really sucks, and I'm sorry you had to go through that. Sometimes people drop out when things get hard, and that can be even worse for a friend than when someone actually did anything to them. If it had been because someone was a jerk, then they'd at least have had a reason for why they lost that friend, you know? Then they'd have something they could point out to improve in themselves, or at least blame.
Unfortunately, that's not always there and it's hard to be disillusioned about people you thought you could trust to be there. It's also gotta be rough seeing a friendship breakup play out in a comic you're invested in. That's the downside of good writing, sometimes those issues can cut a little close, and I hope you're doing alright.
For their parts though, it didn't seem like Mar and Hanna were friends in mostly out of tradition for a while..they didn't seem to be talking much and Hanna was unhappy with Mar's changes for a long time. So the "better off" phrase might actually apply since they were bringing out some ugliness in eachother, though they both seem to have been grieving over it ending in their own ways. At least, I think she's trying to console Marek, who still seems concerned for Hanna.
Can someone remind me why Marek and Hanna broke up? I know it had to do with graduating but…I don't really the actual reason behind it.
Marek wants kids, Hanna doesn't
Ah. 🙁 I can relate to poor Marek in that sense. I'm pretty sure my long-term boyfriend doesn't like children at all and I want a small army.
Marigold has always been insufferable. And I feel strangely bitter, since Jane gave Hanna that great "the witch lives" speech only to succumb to this sudden and honestly baffling romance. Now one witch is gone, and the other is alone again.
But I see a lot of Hanna in myself, and it's uncomfortable. Not all of us have the energy to desperately turn over a new leaf when unhappy like Marigold. Sometimes we just get stuck.
I do understand, and I, myself, feel quite stuck where I am right now.
But, in response to your "link" (sorry, I'm brazilian and I lack words when I'm sleepy, I can't find the right one I was thinking about) to Hannah, I see a lot of Jane in myself,and I'd say that, in her position – knowing both parts, Hannah, and Marigold, and having different realationships with them, I'd be like this too.
Jane didn't succumb. You succumb when you are really reluctant, when something seems bad. And while she hesitated at the start she realized – and felt – this could be good to her, and to Marigold, and Marigold did too.
To be honest, at the start, I didn't like Marigold. She also seemed to down for me, and her only personality trait (that I could see) was following what others were doing. And that's why, also, Hannah, that has been for a long time some kind of natural leader to the OP band, predated on her lack of self-esteem to make herself feel bigger and better, hence her words in their "friend-ship" breakup.
The thing in OP is that the characters feel to real, they are really relatable, and sometimes, not just one, but two or more, that we can see some of ourselves into. I also felt related to Hannah sometimes.
And that's why, and I hope you don't feel bitter in relation to me, too, that there's no need to feel like that towards any of them. Because the thing is, at this point in the story, they are rarely succumbing or jumping into things, They are looking further, they are analyzing, they are growing up and starting to think more carefully at their own lives and hapiness, as well as the others.
So now I like Mari. I like her for growing where she could alone, and where she had help. I like her for realizing she is not in the perfect place, and continue searching for it, maybe risking being hurt again with Jane, maybe not.
I like Jane for realizing hapiness is not hard sometimes. For not fearing despite past feelings and experiences. For letting herself too, grow, and try.
And Hannah. I like her a lot. She is still a natural leader, with big plans, and a still very big heart. She is not stuck, not anymore. She has Will, that was always a good friend, and more importantly, herself.
She, too, has grown, and all of them will do it even more, and so I hope.
OP might be bittersweet, but there's nothing bitter. I just got to be 20 this november, and this comic really helped me understanding that eveything this age, this phase makes me feel, is okay. And that with help, or by myself, I can stop being stuck where I am. Change doesn't always has to be bad, and going forward unveils new tracks, and new colors.
I hope you feel better, and feel great, always! Sorry for rambling
Sorry, you can't call this character insufferable: http://www.octopuspie.com/2015-11-05/843-this-wil…
It's not allowed.
"…this sudden and honestly baffling romance." It's all just completely arbitrary. You know?
to be fair to Jane, you could argue that she's been trying to get into Marigold ever since RIGHT AFTER her witch speech, and she's been a blatant romantic even longer before that. It's what they both were feeling at the moment, but people can change as things come to pass.
If your romances aren't sudden and honestly baffling you have my greatest sympathies. I've known my wife for ten years, we've been friends and then suddenly and very bafflingly falling into love. Three years later we're still baffled by it.
It's funny, I see a lot of Hanna in myself too but that's exactly what makes me roll my eyes at her. I don't think it's been explicitly stated, but Hanna seems to've been an extremely gifted child. If that's true, I certainly relate – to the arrogance, the total unwillingness to compromise, the feeling that the sun will AND SHOULD always shine for you. Being 100% sure of your own brilliance. Spending so much time being the bright light will do that to a person!
I look at Hanna's venom and shudder b/c that could be me. It isn't, though. I'm still arrogant and I still don't compromise, but I mean…I don't hateread? I like my friends? I've also done a lot more fumbling in my adult life, though – I wouldn't say it's HUMBLED me, but it's added let's call it nuance. I assume Hanna's getting similar treatment now, but we haven't seen enough of her yet to see the results.
Anyway, after seeing the pictures I hope she reaches out to Merigold and gets smacked down! It'd be well-deserved and appropriate!
If I remember correctly, Hanna was giving Mar memory muffins and Eve ate one . . .
In my view: please [don't] use the claw-action prize machines. I've only seen 1 person win something from them, ever, and that was a stuffed animal that got hooked on the claw by mistake.
Darn old claw machines.
Just some tag
When I was young (like 7?) i played on such machine and I pulled out two (!) stuffed animals. I instantly hugged them, beacuse i feared someone will take them away from me. Fortunately it didn't happened.
Now I'm not so lucky and i don't play any "gambling" games"
Love that little detail of Marigold gripping her bag with both hands in panel 9… I know I've seen her gear up for other tough emotional moments with that same gesture and it really endears her to me. It's the individual body language of these characters that is (one of!!) the things that makes OP so amazing.
I love the layout of this page so much – the varying perspectives and shots especially – and the color work only enhances it.
Too much of my current life in these pages. Weird outside perspectives. And lot of heavy feelings.
I’m thinking the gambling games are a gentle commentary on the arbitrariness of love (and friendhsip) that Jane mentioned. 1 in 10 wins!
I forgot aboutthis. And rereading it made me cry because at that time this qas updated, i had recently broken ties with an extremely close friend because I began to see things differently and well, not wanting to "waste" time. It was ugly, friends got divided even when we tried not to involve them. Now, after year or so (maybe 2. I lost track of time) i can see we are both better off and in such a good state. We sometimes cross path in college, but not even a nod of acknowledgement is done.